By Rich Simon It seems astonishing that even just two or three decades ago, parents not only pretty much knew what was expected of them to turn their offspring into civilized adults, but they could actually count on society to back them up. Even more astounding, kids seemed to understand this, too. Even if they rebelled against, yelled about, or sullenly resented how “unfair” adults were, they seemed to acknowledge adult authority and realize that they would just have to wait until they turned 18 to get for themselves the keys to the kingdom of grown-up independence.
![]() NP007 The Road to Clinical ExcellenceThis blog focuses on discussion regarding the course NP007 The Road to Clinical Excellence.NP007, Excellence, Session 3, Barry DuncanWhat is the most important key to improving as a therapist? How can we radically and consistently improve our effectiveness as clinicians? Get the answers to these questions and more in session 3 of The Road to Clinical Excellence with Barry Duncan. He’ll go over ways in which we can improve as therapists, including what more than 1,000 studies have taught us about the science of the therapeutic alliance. You’ll learn what “healing involvement” is and how to achieve it with any client and how you’ll come away with a much better understanding of why outcome measurement is essential to improvement. As always, we encourage you to take a few minutes after the session to comment—what was new, or most interesting to you about this session? What questions do you have or relevant experiences to share? And as always, if you ever have any technical questions, just email support@psychnetworker.org! Comments |
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed the session. Hope you find the site useful.
Barry
Yes, there is much more to it than meets the eye, some real nuance to getting the max out of them. Glad today helped. Check out the resource page for more info about how to use the measures.
Barry
An excellent session -very insightfull and provacative. I would like my students to view this session (and I am very pleased that these sessions will be available for 6 months). Would I be able to show this session to grad students at the University of Toronto? I can be reached at ronald.warner@utoronto.ca. I would appreciate someone getting back to my on this.
Thanks
Ron
Thanks for the feedback. I am gratified that you want your students to watch it. You'll have to check with the Networker about your question. If you don't hear anything, let me know and I'll try to help.
Barry
Thanks for your comment - someone from the Networker team will e-mail you soon with a response to your question!
Thanks, that was the message I most wanted to get across! There ain't no free lunch and earning a good alliance can be tough indeed, and not to be taken for granted. I like the analogy to our other relationships.
Barry
Glad you appreciated the reference to Rogers. We all stand on his shoulders. Yeah, I agree with you re the coaching and I wouldn't describe what I do that way. But as I said, I wouldn't mind if a client saw me that way.
Barry
Thanks for the feedback and thanks for checking out the webinar. I hope you visit www.heartandsoulofchange.com and download the measures. I truly believe that they will help your work.
Barry
thanks for some wonderful food for thought!!
Glad you got something you could chew on! Yes, the measures have used with groups in many, many places. There is even a Group Session Rating Scale that is part of the ORS/SRS download. We just finished a randomized clinical trial in a group setting and found a significant effect for feedback. Give it a try and see what you think.
Barry
Frankly, I didn't imagine it either when we started out! Give it a try and let me know what you think. Rich has an incredible ability to interview and capture things at its essence.
Barry
Rich once again as I watch a webinar when you interview, I appreciate your involvemnt. Your summarizations and questions consistently add value to the presentations.
Glad you found it useful. It is the nuances that make the work, I think. My dad was chocked full of little wisdoms that will always travel with me. Yes, Rich definitely takes a conversation to a different and better level.
Barry
I do very much appreciate the presentation, and to plan to avail myself of the impressive offerings of the website, and thank you so much, Barry Duncan, for your generosity in sharing knowledge and resources with us.
Thanks for feedback and kind comments. It is my pleasure to offer the stuff on the website. This is my passion and I want to do my best to help therapists get better at what they do.
Barry
Good to " see" you again.
The article "A lab test and algorithms for identifying clients at risk for treatment failure" noted that the 48 therapists who were treating 551 clients, that when the therapists stopped receiving outcome feedback and were asked to assess for deterioration and client outcomes only one of the therapists was able to assess deterioration correctly. Have I got that right? Would you comment?
James Venneear
Good to hear from you. Here is how that study went: Hannan et al. (2005) compared therapist predictions of client deterioration to actuarial methods. Though therapists were aware of the study's purpose, familiar with the outcome measure used, and informed that the base rate was likely to be 8%, they accurately predicted deterioration in only one out of 550 cases; psychotherapists did not identify 39 out of the 40 clients who deteriorated. In contrast, the actuarial method correctly predicted 36 of the 40. Hope that clarifies it for you.
Barry
Barry
My stuckness about questionaires is that they might be a distraction from really listening to what the client brings as important to each session, that as they attend to the "test", the material of the moment is lost. I like the idea of the framework re goals of therapy and the measure of each session at the end of session. I want to have a better idea of my relationship and response to each client and discovering anything I have missed from their experience would be most helpful. Really appreciate your work in this direction.
Carol
Thanks. Glad you found it useful. I had your same concerns and really didn't like the idea of starting a session by shoving a piece of paper in front of someone. But I am glad I did because I think it helps get down to the business of listening all the more quickly, and more quickly to the important stuff. It is really not a distraction--it takes so little time and actually seems to engage the client right off the bat. But don't take my word for it, try it and see.
Barry
Thanks, glad you liked it. Good questions. It is really is easy to introduce the measures. Regarding the ORS, you just want to get across two things: one is that the measures are a way to ensure the client's voice remains central to the process; and two, that the ORS is a way to monitor whether the client is benefiting from the service you are providing. Scripts for introducing the measures are available to get you started at http://heartandsoulofchange.com/resources/handouts/. Just click on Barry's Handouts. Regarding hesitation or exaggerations, it is a lot less that you would think. People don't, according to research, misrpresent their distress level. And we have found that ratings of the ORS don't vary at follow up when the therapist is not around. The alliance measure, the SRS, is a bit more tricky because clients tend to score all alliance measures high. Some people have suggested that social desirability and demand characteristics are at play even though clients tend to score high whether they are with therapists or not. My friend and colleague Jeff Reese at UK (and a student who I don't know) examined this question directly and found no difference between the therapist in the room or not. Hope this makes sense.
Barry
What stood out for me is that you have offered a simple way to identify how the client sees him or herself progessing in the therapy process and a clear way to identify and focus on what aspect of the therapy session could be improved. Most importantly, you have created a conversation starter about very relevant issues. Rich, I truly appreciate the service you are providing through these webinars. Thanks
Thanks for the feedback. I think you hit the nail on the head by calling it a "conversation starter." I believe the ORS/SRS makes the discussion of progress and relationship a routine part of the process, directing the therapist to what the client considers important.
Barry
There is great variability in therapist ability to form alliances with clients and it makes since that those who are flexible to a broad range of client styles would be beter at it. The good news is that most therapist do get better with feedback and feedback tends to level out therapist perfomance. Nine of ten therapists in our big Norway study improved their performance with feedback. But still, as you say, some folks may not listen to the feedback or change to fit clients. I have not done any research about the personality factors involved or this issue in general but it would be very interesting.
Barry